Special Episode: The NWBA Hall of Fame Class of 2024 Inductees

Today on The Wheel Print podcast: Celebrating the powerhouse women of the Class of 2024 and The National Girls and Women in Sports Day!  PhD holders, decades of service, and trailblazers in both athletics and leadership. Inspired by Coco Chanel's words, 'A girl should be two things: who and what she wants.' Honored to be part of history as we welcome the first all-female class to the HOF: 
- Dr. Darlene Hunter
- Dr. Andrea Woodson-Smith 
- Cheryl Lady Vines 

Transcript

[00:05] DK: Hello, this is DK. Welcome to the Wheelprint podcast, created to uncover the inside game of adaptive athletes, their untold stories of what drives them and what makes them tick. So be prepared to be amazed as we discover the trials and the triumphs of the human spirit. Enjoy this episode.

[00:25] DK: Those yo, here we go. I'm DK and I'm the host of the Wheelprint podcast, and today's the first. We are going to have three guests on that's never been done, and I love that. But today's guests are a trifecta of excellence and history and service for the NWBA and particularly NWBA hall of Fame. There's two categories by which one can get inducted. That is, if you played the game and or a competitor for a minimum of ten years, and then the other is a contributor and you have to have served and made the NWBA better for a minimum of 15 years. And our guests today have totally qualified and overdone all those requirements. We have two of our competitors who have phds, I'm proud to say that loud. And also our contributor could also be called that same title by what she's earned by way of education and service. So here we go. Today's guest, Dr. Darlene Hunter from Arlington or Dallas, Texas, wherever she's laying her head, Dr. Andrea Woodson Smith from Raleigh, I hope. Carrie. There we go. And Cheryl Lady Vines from Los Ohos, California. So really excited to have you guys here today and welcome to the Wheel print podcast.

[02:27] Cheryl: Thank you.

[02:28] Darlene: Thank you for having us.

[02:29] DK: All right. There we go. All right. Well, we're going to kind of get right into the nuts and bolts of some things that need to be addressed. One, I'm going to start with some historical facts. The fact of the matter is that the hall of Fame for the NWPA began in 1973, and from that time there have been, from its inception, 60 men were inducted in the next 21 years without a female until Sharon Hedrick came along in 1994. She was inducted. Then we went dark again for another five years until Susan Hegel was inducted. So I think you can get where I'm going here. And the fact of the matter that we have three women representing the hall of Fame, I'd like to hear your opinion and your take on that and those stats. So, Cheryl, why don't we start with you?

[03:49] Cheryl: Oh my goodness. I was around for most of all that time, and I was one of the people that kept pushing and saying to this very male, very chauvinistic, if you will, group of men. Know, when were we going to have a woman. There were a lot of women. Women had been playing in the Olympic, in the Paralympics, and the women's movement was growing. So I was excited when Sharon was inducted and disappointed that it had taken that long.

[04:23] DK: Yeah, no doubt. Thank goodness, though. Darlene, how about you?

[04:33] Darlene: I was surprised at how long it took, to be honest, because I knew when the women's league started, and so I was surprised that we started in the 70s with the women's division and stuff. So the fact that it still took so long for a woman to be recognized from the fact that we've stood up as an NWBA and one of the few nations in the world and said we have this specific women's division and we wanted women to stand apart and train and be against each other, that we also weren't that example for a long time of putting women in, because obviously we've recognized that we had enough women to create a league or a division. And why didn't it happen where we ended up being in the hall of Fame? But I think as time has changed, and Cheryl makes a great point, advocates like Cheryl and people before us said that this was important, and you being the chair of the committee now, I know how important women have always stood with you. And so it's really important to have this class now standing to, I think, rights all the wrongs before us, that there is an all women's class and it's never been done in the history, which is a pretty exciting thing to be a part of.

[05:45] DK: That's right. Hey.

[05:51] Andrea: Well, I agree with both. And I think if we look at it from a broader viewpoint with the Women's Sports foundation as well, and knowing that this is the 50th year for the women's sports foundation and the push for equity among sports with women and men, I think that this is extraordinaire. But again, why did it take this long to be able to start inputting female athletes into these types of positions? And when you look at the board and the leadership within the NWBA, when you don't have that representation, then a lot of times those factors are missed. And I think trying to incorporate more diversity on the board and bring triple that down to the members and to the athletes, I think at that point, then that increases. But being intentional about having the equity across the board to include women in such a factor has to happen. You have to have that intentionality in order for these things to happen, because if you don't, we'll go another 50 years without. And so I think it's very important that people recognize the importance of what women have contributed to the sport itself, as from athletes all the way up to leadership, it's tremendous. The women that we've had within the NWBA organization is tremendous. The history line of beginning the sport as a women's division is tremendous. And the women who have come along the way in all avenues of athletes and leadership is also tremendous. And so for there to be such few women, it doesn't grasp what women have done and what women have put forth into this organization.

[07:58] DK: Quite a travesty, right? Quite a travesty. But that was then and this is now. And I have to say, even with my predecessor, Frank Burns, there were inclusion steps taken where women were being inducted. But basically it's like, well, let's do one, but let's not do two. That kind of thing without coming out and saying it. So while we're on a kind of history, this is also black History Month and a. It probably is no surprise to you, but maybe, I don't know. I wouldn't think so. But you're the first black female ever inducted into the hall of Fame. So, yes, we went there. Now let's talk about it a while. You got the mic. What do you think?

[09:07] Andrea: Again, I'd say intentionality. When we look at the growth and we look at the sport itself, one, it can be expensive because you want, you have to purchase equipment, you have to pay for transportation, you have to pay for lodging. And if we're not going into those spaces where you have minorities and providing those barriers that are within that community, if you're not breaking down those barriers, you're not going to be able to reach that population of people. And so, you know, that's one of the things that I commend, Darlene, is that and some others, as well as being intentional to make sure that we are reaching that population, because we can't have a second and third of me without doing that. And that needs to be something that we put forth a strong effort to break down those barriers so that we start increasing the numbers because we don't just want athletes in the organization, minority athletes in the organization, but we want them to filter all the way up to the top with the leadership roles as well. When you look at sports all the way around, the barriers are starting to break. You're starting to see more women in leadership positions. You're starting to see more minority women in leadership positions. And I think the way that the organization began to create pathways for athletes all the way up to leadership and beyond, I think that's going to create the opportunity to have more women and more minorities included in this. But again, it goes back to being intentional. If you're not intentional and you don't create those opportunities, we'll stay the.

[11:02] DK: Darlene you a reference you because we know you've been in action and a motivator for trying to address this challenge. So why don't you speak to some of the ways you see could help the situation and or what you think still needs to happen.

[11:30] Darlene: Like Ace said, it's a social work in me, right. We understand the disparities and we have to look at Paralympics in general. We tend to be a very wealthy sport to do cost of the chairs and stuff. Matt Scott's doing really good things with his foundation in connection with the Hartford, in which we can now get more chairs into the hands of junior athletes. Paying for camps. That's why I've done women's camps for free, because one of the barriers camps right now, I don't know if anybody's looked at the cost this year. It's like $500 for each camp, and that's without the transportation in, parents having to travel all of that stuff to get the kids to camp. So when we do a two to three day camp, that's easily $1000 to $1,500 to get a kid there. And we know how much camp changes lives. So I've been really intentional to write grants that look at marginalized populations so we can pay for them to get in free, really target those women. If anybody's looked at our USA team for women for probably the last 30 years, very few people other than white people make the team. And so how are we, like a said, missing the mark that much? We are a very diverse nation in the United States. There's no reason why wheelchair basketball shouldn't be diverse and our USA women's team shouldn't be diverse. And we want that competition and we want those people to be part of our group. I think having free camps, having access to program chairs, but also going out into those areas that may not be, quote unquote, the safest areas to have practice in is where we're going to have to do it. Because transportation is such an issue that you need to have public transportation. And in a lot of areas, unless you're in the cities with the marginalized groups, they can't get to you. And so we're trying really hard. I know that that's an initiative we've taken on from NWBA, from a leadership position in our strategic plan. And so, hopefully, with funding, we could continue to get there. But we do need to do better. We're leaving a group behind, and that's not fair. In disability, we're very intersectionality. It doesn't discriminate against anybody. And so what are we doing? Not being able to reach that population.

[13:45] DK: Yeah, so, so. Well said. And this is bigger than having representation in the hall of fame, right? I mean, we need to have grassroots program that are increasing the numbers of people of color. And we can't be afraid of the inner city challenges, because we have to go there. And by doing that, then we are creating the pool by which someday maybe there will be someone else like Hay Woodson. Dr. Hay Woodson representing the hall of Fame. But we need black women players, period. It's obvious. So I'm glad to hear you both talk in that regard. Well, look, with this being an all women's class, 2024, do you guys feel it's, I heard you say historical, Cheryl, how do you feel about being on, having your peers, being three women?

[15:04] Cheryl: I think it's exciting. I don't guess in my early days of the NWBA that I would have ever guessed that we would ever induct a woman. Nevertheless, three women. But it's exciting to me because in my real life, my work life at PVA, I oversee our women veterans program and our women veterans, they make up 10% of all veterans, and they've really been left behind, particularly when it comes to sports. So PVA, we're working hard to try to get more women veterans involved in sports, and for them, the challenge of the cost of equipment and that kind of thing isn't so much, but learning, feeling part of a team or an organization, I think, is really a challenge. I think early on in the NWBA, it was pretty much made up of people who live with spinal cord injuries and people who lived with amputations. And we know that 80% of all spinal cord injuries happen to men. So we had a smaller pool to draw from of women. I don't know the stats for amputees, but the whole risk taking behavior, I would think it'd be fairly similar. So we've always had a smaller pool to draw from. But I think with the juniors now. Correct me if I'm wrong, Dar, but I think easily a third, maybe half, on some teams of the players are women. But how many of those women transition on to an adult women's team is a challenge that I think you've done a good job working on, and I think it's something that the NWBA needs to work on because women should not be left out just because they turn 18 or graduate from high school.

[17:11] Darlene: And that's something we're noticing right now is even the jump from, and this is happening in able bodied sports too. And women is the jump from prep to varsity and then varsity to college and then college to a women's team or adult to a women's team. We need to do a better job on the NWBA with those transitions from those kids to the adults teams, not just in women, but in men, but specifically women in this conversation. But we're seeing more women, so we know that they're out there, they're getting active. Since we started the military division a couple of years ago. Hopefully that gives more of a place for women to feel more comfortable to come out. And the classification that had been put in on the women or on the junior side allowed women to play because it kind of leveled the playing field a little bit with muscles and growing. So there has been strategic steps taken. But for sure we have to do way more. The transitions between prep, varsity, varsity, adult, we're still missing the mark and something we all still need to strive for.

[18:13] DK: I think Charlote is a great example of where we've had to be. Our, our women's team comprises six different states, minimum. And it's that kind of flexibility that's needed. But yet it's unique to the women's division. And as we continue to grow the sport at the junior level, like we're doing now, then perhaps it won't be this way. And I want to clarify, there may be those out there that think that this is either a DK led campaign or a HOF committee campaign to get three women on board. It was not, it's not how it works. The votes on the ballot, it rose these three women to the top, plain and simple, true and transparent. So there was no, we're trying to make this happen for national girls and Women's foundation day or anything like that. This was that they earned this spot and the next person was that far behind in points that we even chose to only put three in this year. So I wanted to be clear about that because I've heard a little scuttlebutt out there and I want to just put that to rest, that you guys are bona fide representation of the process. So let's each of us talk about how you feel about your induction and what that call from the hall was like briefly. So let me hear from you.

[20:29] Andrea: Well, it had my mind wondering with the text messages that came through. First I said, what could DK want? So I was thinking, well, maybe he wanted to put on a three on three here at NCCU. And then when you said the marketing piece, I said, that has to be what it is. But then when I came on and it hit record, I said, oh, no, what's going on? I was, I was completely in shock. This never crossed my mind whatsoever. I think I had my initial thought of hall of fame, my first year of playing, and that was it. It just kind of left after that. But I had to hold back the tears to get through the announcement. And afterwards, I lost it. I completely lost it. I went out and told my administrative assistants, I need to talk to you and could barely get those words out before I just completely just went into a ball of tears. But I'm just ecstatic with this information, with knowing this and being nominated and getting ready to be inducted. I can't wait for April. This is going to be my best birthday.

[21:47] DK: On right on. As I told you after, I wish we would have had that moment.

[21:53] Andrea: No, you don't recorded.

[21:55] DK: Oh, yeah, I do. We would have made it work. But anyway, Cheryl, how about you while I bring you up to speak to that, more stats, right. You are in select company. There's only three other husband, let's put it this way, wife husband duos that have been inducted. Your friends, our friends Julie and Bill Duncan. No, I'm going to put the woman first. Sharon and Brad Hedrick and Sharon and Jim Miller. That's it. So tell us what you felt about the hall and the call, but also what it means to you and what you know it means to Harry.

[22:52] Cheryl: Oh, gosh, you're going to make him cry again. I didn't do as well as you a. I cried on tv. I mean, on the thing with Dave and my sister said, my gosh, Cheryl. So what does it mean? Number one, I always ascribe to Tim Nugent's saying, I learned a lot from that man. And he always said, the game's for the people that play it. And so he always believed that the organization should be run by the people that play it and the award should be given to the people that play it. Of course, he was the first contributor that ever was inducted into the hall of Fame. But so I always thought working in the background, making things happen, that's kind of my thing is I try to make things happen for people or help people make the things happen that they want to happen in their lives. And so I always felt that my backdoor work or my background work was just for that, just to keep players playing and teams competing and tournaments running and that kind of thing. So as I said to Dave that day, I just still cannot believe that I'm in a place that I'm being inducted into the hall of fame where all my basketball heroes are. So it was really touching. It crossed my mind that there were a few other husbands and wives that were involved, and those names that you presented, two are my very best friends. But they were all people that had a big impact, both before they got married and after they married one another. So I think that it's important that even though you say wives first, a lot of people don't think that I was involved in wheelchair sports before I met Harry Vines, but I was. In fact, I was involved in the NWBA before he was. But not everybody knows that.

[25:10] DK: Let's set the story straight.

[25:13] Cheryl: Let's set the story didn't. And despite that, for many years, despite all the things that I'd done, I still got introduced to people. Not as Cheryl Vines tournament selection committee chair, not as Cheryl Vines, conference commissioner. I got introduced as Cheryl Vines. Oh, you know, she's Harry's wife. And I valued that role more than any in my life. But I think that it deterred people from thinking about the role that women have on their own, not just as wives and partners.

[25:57] DK: I totally agree. For every hero in the spotlight, there's more than likely a wife or dar. How about you? How was that call from the hall?

[26:14] Darlene: It's always a surprise. Like a said, I guess I never thought, at least right now, that I would be considered for hall of. It's sort of like what Sherilyn A was saying, is that you don't think about you being in the hall of Fame, that you do work and you want to give back to the like, I think one of the mottos I've lived by, and it's actually DK, you and Miles taught it when I made my first national team, know, you give as much as you take back to the game. Like, your responsibility is you be an athlete, but you also give back to the people who made this opportunity for you. And you give back to the, and like, I knew that growing up, but it resonated more. And maybe it was that coaching staff of you, price and Miles altogether. You all really instinctly believed in giving back to the game, and it was a great mentorship for me personally. And then at the same time, I was growing up with Pam and a because I came to the game in my 20s, right? So this is why this is even more special is because, a and I started the game with a a and I played together on the Dallas team for a long time, and, like, we're going into the hall of Fame together, and Pam nominated both of us. And it's just this full circle of Dallas coming back around, and it's even more special to have it this year. And, Cheryl, I was really excited when you got inducted with us, too, because you've been the staple woman in the sport for the whole history of NWBA. And I don't know if people actually see you, but the women see you. If no one else sees you, the women have seen you, and you've been a great mentor to see admin. You've taken on every position that you could have possibly taken, and you've led it, and you've done a great job. So I couldn't think of two better people I'd want to go in with. And then it came out that it was all women, and I was like, what? Just, like, this never happens in the NWBA, that anything's all women and that it's all these really strong women and in really good leadership positions. So when I got the call and then you're like, oh, here's all the other people. I was super excited, even more so because it values women and everything I've stood for in my career of what I've done for wheelchair basketball and women, and to do it with the two other amazing women who have done just as much and the same thinking, it's just that much more important and powerful for me. But it also gives kudos to my family, who supported me and gave up so much time with me so that I could go and live this life. And so I always feel like it's really important to share that with the people behind you in the background that no one sees that made the path so I could do this. I guess it's just like the cherry on top for everything to say. You validated and we recognized you and you weren't doing things that no one saw. And a lot of times when you're doing it, you feel like, is this a value? And this actually puts the crowning moment on it. So I'm pretty excited.

[29:26] DK: Yeah.

[29:26] Darlene: And can I just say, we're all April birthdays, so this is going to be a really. I'm in April 16, so when we get into hall of Fame in April, this is going to be our birthday party, too.

[29:37] Andrea: Absolutely. April 19 April 7 April 30 oh my God.

[29:47] DK: Come on.

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[30:58] DK: Right well, a and Dar, what you've done in your academic life, your teaching life, the programs you've instituted, it's just a tremendous example for athletes of any gender. But you do have the athletic resumes with national teams playing nationally and internationally. But I think what I'm seeing more and more as we induct hall of Famers, there's a service side to these people, and the committee really takes that serious. Oftentimes, if somebody's close in our discussions, service may be what tips it the other way. And I think it's really important that we are a give back population in the hall and that we continue that. But what would you be most proud of in your service life that you've been able to do in our sport or for others? Not necessarily just in our sport, because it's all relative. Let's start with you. What are you most proud of that you've been able to accomplish off the court?

[32:47] Andrea: Kevin probably my connections that I have with, whether it's my youth at church, whether it's the youth of wheelchair basketball or just youth in general, just trying to create an impact with them and allow them to see or have a vision of what they can become, how to get there to where they want to be, and letting them know that they are value and that they have value. I think that is what I am most proud of is I never in my life dreamt of being part of the youth, of helping the youth. And it's always been a part of me, and I've always wanted to. Well, didn't necessarily want, but I always was an advocate for women, even when I was in high school. And I didn't realize it. It went from my hometown of playing at the YMCA, and we had two courts. One was for, I think it was for the older kids and one was for the younger kids, unless you were a girl and then you played on the younger court, regardless of your age. And I would always tell friends of mine who would come in to play, and I said, you need to go play on the older court because you're this age, whether you're a girl or not, you need to be over there playing on that court. And so I was always an advocate for girls, and I didn't recognize that until I was older, until I was able to put myself in positions to create those impacts with our youth, especially with our women and our female athletes and just females in general. I work with fourth and fifth grade life groups at church, and then I work with 7th and eigth grade girls at church. And a lot of those girls who come into our classes are athletes. And so just to be able to provide another source, and a lot of them are from marginalized areas. A lot of them are from marginalized populations. It's very powerful when you have a girl who comes up to you and just says, thank you, or I never had anybody who I could talk to, or it's just very powerful. I mean, I've had a girl who just came in and hugged me for. I didn't know of the reason, but later I found out. But just creating that opportunity and that space for them to realize that, yes, I am someone and create visions for them. Even with my students now, my undergrad and graduate students, I always tell them, we are here to help you. I am here to impact your life. I am here to help you create a vision of who you want to become. And soar high. We are eagles, so I say soar. So soar high. And just being there to support them, I think that's the biggest thing is the support that I provide to the women and the girls who I invest in. That's probably been my biggest contribution and the most powerful thing that I could really contribute to with girls.

[36:24] DK: Right on. Right on. And I love the church life part as well. Dar, how about you and Cliffnell version.

[36:37] Darlene: I would say my women's wheelchair basketball camp, just because that's what's really been the pathway to keep a lot of women involved and that it gives them access at all ages. To each other. So they all mentor each other. It's a really cool environment to have eleven year olds and adults and say, this is how we learn from each other through sport, and here's the life path that you can take. And that we have moms who have children and then college athletes and then beginning youth, and it's just a really powerful thing. So that's like my biggest impact, I think.

[37:09] DK: Yeah, one of many, but that one is a flagship and so appreciated cv.

[37:19] Cheryl: Wow. There's so many that bounced around in my mind, but I think I have to pick two. And that is two activities that honor dear friends of mine. The Wayne Kunashiga Scholarship award and the Bill and Julie Duncan Good Guy Award. I think through both of those we've had the ability to recognize women and men who are doing things well with the good guy, are doing things out of their love for the sport, their love for what they're doing, and never expect to get recognition. I was the first good guy and I thought that was going to be my recognition in the NWBA. But then the scholarships, the Wayne Kunishuga scholarship, you know, we've been able to really help some students kind of get over the hump financially to be able to continue in their lives. Some of them have continued play basketball, some of them haven't. But we have a couple of phds, we have an attorney and some folks that are really doing exciting things, in large part because they participated in a wheelchair basketball on a wheelchair basketball team, and that's what gave them their start. So those two are really near and.

[38:46] DK: Dear to my, and certainly it's been part of our fabric of the NWBA. For those that don't know, these are awards and scholarships given out internally to more than not unsuspecting recipients of doing and putting goodness out into our world. So very valuable and very much appreciated.

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[40:03] DK: We're getting near our end and you know, a started off talking about the national February 1, national girls, women in sports day reiterates the narrative that women belong in all sports. The celebration of national girls and women in sports day helps convey the importance of being physically active and encourages women to realize their full potential. Dar, how do you think the NWBA is doing with that initiative that's out there?

[40:51] Darlene: We're getting there. There's still a lot of work, but we're getting there. It's at least part of the strategic plan now, and we're talking about it in their steps that we're taking. And it all comes down to, to be honest. And I think sometimes we need these honest, hard conversations. It's bandwidth, right? And if we want this, the reason why I've held true to what I've been doing is the more people who actively get involved and really want to do service and really push this makes it better for everybody if it's just one or two people trying to push it along. We're all volunteer organization. We need the volunteers to make it better. And so I think their NWBA leadership recognizes it and they want it to happen. I think on all committees, we all believe in it. It's just a bandwidth issue, to be completely honest. And we all need to do better. This is an initiative that we could all take on. We could all encourage each other, and we could all provide opportunity for women in sports. And it's something that, sometimes it's attitudinal, sometimes it's financial. But if we all work with each other, we can always find the solution. I wholeheartedly believe. And so does NWBA have to do better? Absolutely. But it's a charge all of us as members of the NWBA should be taking on to represent and do better. It's not just on one person or leadership, it's on all of us.

[42:14] DK: Yeah, no doubt, no doubt. And I know the other two guests are nodding their head, but we're at the end and we could go on for a really long time, but that's not quite possible. But really quickly, not that quick. But what advice or statement would you make to young girls who are seeing and hearing this podcast moving forward? Or anyone in general? What would be your message? Anybody?

[42:56] Darlene: Mine would be, believe in yourself because we believe in you. I think as women, we often don't have the self esteem and confidence that other people are watching and believing. And just because it's not said openly to us, it doesn't mean that people aren't supporting you and watching you and never stop trying. I've told my story several times. I didn't make my first national team. I didn't make my first three national teams. It took me seven tries to make it. And I think if that's your passion and that's your drive and whatever you want to do in life, you have to keep going after it. And don't let anybody tell you no.

[43:30] Cheryl: That's exactly what I was thinking, is don't be deterred. Don't let anybody keep you from your goals.

[43:38] DK: Right on.

[43:39] Cheryl: Right.

[43:39] Andrea: And I would say, be all that you can be. If there's an opportunity, go for it. Don't turn down any opportunity that has been provided for you. Try everything.

[43:53] DK: Amen. So, God, what a powerful bunch of ladies this is. Folks, I want to just thank you hall of famers for honoring me and being a guest on the wheel print. It's humbling to be in your presence at this moment, collectively with all that you've done. And hopefully now listeners are getting more insight as to more than just how many baskets, rebounds, or block shots one got. We appreciate your service. So on behalf of the wheelprint, you may find us on YouTube, Spotify, and Apple podcasts. So from here in my seat, be a good human being, do the next right thing. And I want to thank performax for being our lead sponsor, the Sweet ride, and for you, med, our official new sponsor of the Wheelprint. So thank you, ladies, and don't ever change. Peace.

[45:14] Cheryl: Thanks.

[45:17] DK: I hope you enjoyed today's show on the Wheelprint podcast as much as I did. I invite you to check out our other episodes on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or on our YouTube channel. Thank you to our lead sponsor, performax wheelchairs the Sweet ride. They are the leaders of wheelchair design worldwide. And to our new sponsor, Umed. Special thanks to ishtanyeri of Dromos, our lead producer of this show.